Is .68 cal on the way out?

[Dusty]

With the introduction of .50 cal and .43 cal (Kingman training and RAP 4 Markers) is .68 now going to start fading quietly away now there is more choice?

Your thoughts please.

[Mactoshdog]

everyone i know still uses .68
and so dose my site,
the new PE, dye and proto are all .68,
as far as my paintball gose, no its not.

[SamFlyZ]

Nah

.68 Cal ftw =D

[Dusty]

everyone i know still uses .68
and so dose my site,
the new PE, dye and proto are all .68,
as far as my paintball gose, no its not.

Talk about stating the obvious


Nah

.68 Cal ftw =D

Deep. Like a puddle.

[John C]

With the introduction of .50 cal and .43 cal (Kingman training and RAP 4 Markers) is .68 now going to start fading quietly away now there is more choice?

Your thoughts please.

I think its a bit of a premature question to ask.


The first thing we need is proof that the new 50 cal does work as well as 68. If thats true then 50 cal at least has a chance of success.

I say the new 50 cal, as opposed to the 50 cal many people have already experienced from days of old, which would not be suitable.

[Dusty]

I think its a bit of a premature question to ask.


The first thing we need is proof that the new 50 cal does work as well as 68. If thats true then 50 cal at least has a chance of success.

I say the new 50 cal, as opposed to the 50 cal many people have already experienced from days of old, which would not be suitable.

Well having shot .43 i found it ok, but for now lets assume .50 cal does perform as claimed until proven otherwise.

[Jacko]

I think it all hinges on how well its going to perform on the fields,if it breaks as well,marks as well.

And from a sites point of view the cost of replacing numerous markers hoppers packs ect.

But from a players point of view it doesn't really make much difference as we buy new kit several times a year:D

I think both will run for some time until one is phased out by the other.

[Robbo]

As I mentioned in another thread, the whole .50 cal debate is predicated upon the following: does it perform as well and is it cheaper?

Paintballers are notoriously picky when it comes to performance, I think we mirror many other sports or hobbies where people will pay waaaaay over the odds if they believe they get extra performance.

In a lot of cases, people spend fortunes on the notion of an improved performance even if the reality is somewhat different.
The 'selling' of an idea is as, if not more important than the product itself.
We may just find there is more than a little substance to the .50 cal bandwagon.


If we assume for the moment, the .50 cal performance is improved over .68, then I know full well, guys who play this sport at the top end will not only use it, they will [I]demand it .... and rightly so, if there is an improved product out there and you are competing in an environment where hardware performance is an integral component, then you better get your ass down to the store and buy the improved product ... cos if you don't, your competition sure will.

This dilemma has grabbed all competitors by the bollocks in every sport imaginable.
When I first begun talks with Richmond concerning this subject, I mentioned the notion of a critical mass being acquired in terms of uptake.

This basically describes a critical number of players who decide to use the new product and begin performing on the circuit.
Richmond knew full well what I was on about and also knew full well, his product had to perform better to give it the best possible chance for success.

Richmond wasn't looking to unleash a product that performs as well as .68, he wanted improvement;
And if you need proof of this strategy when it comes to Richmond's style of innovation and marketing, just take a look at the effect of Procaps when it came into the marketplace with its Draxxus range of paintballs, he set new standards that's for sure.

And then, he unleashed XBall onto an unsuspecting world creating a format that was entirely designed for television.
This format was the only way competitive paintball was gonna make it on TV and gave us all the best possible chance.

Anyway, If my initial assumption is upheld, in that the new product performs better, the critical mass number is reached relatively quickly and an avalanche of sales ensues as everybody who competes moves over so as not to keep having their ass handed to them by a superior product.

A similar situation developed some years back when we all went from pump to semi ... the critical mass was reached extremely quickly and I think it was within less than a year later, the vast majority of players had launched their collective ass over to Semi'sville, Arizona.

Paintballers are extremely fickle when it comes to parting with their hard-earned cash but at the same time, they ain't slow in coming forward if they genuinely believe a product outperforms what's already on the market.

From what I have seen and been told, .50 cal will actually live up to its hype which is quite rare in any market.
I know what Richmond is like, he won't waste any time whatsoever being an also-ran, he is all about innovation and improvement; that's his hallmark.
.50 cal is here to stay. it just remains to be seen how long the transition takes.


Mind you, .68 ain't dead, not yet anyway, but I tell ya what, there's a whole new ball game in town and .68 would do well to avoid any showdowns ..

[Bolter]

This is easy. If the industry wanted to make 50cal happen, all they have to do is make silver or gold shiney shiney paintballs, and people will buy it in their droves regardless of performance. This is what happens with most other equipment.

Of course.....I wish I were joking.

[Sid Sidgwick]

The paint is shiny gold.....wheres my cheque book gone

[John C]

The paint is chrome plated.

And your first purchase comes with a platinum coated wheelybin to throw your old marker away in.

[BubbleGumBob]

surly if everything goes to 50 cal then wouldnt all the old school markers(witch are mighty fun to use) become un-useable

[Robbo]

surly if everything goes to 50 cal then wouldnt all the old school markers(witch are mighty fun to use) become un-useable

Only if someone chops off your arms and they stop making .68 cal paint.

[BubbleGumBob]

stop making .68 cal paint.

but wouldnt that happen over time

[Robbo]

but wouldnt that happen over time

Everything happens 'over time' Bob ........

[Bambulus]

I think it's a far better question to ask than "is .50 cal going to take over?", simply because the answer is no.

.68 cal isn't going anywhere, as so many people have said people like to use their old markers. Is .50 cal going to take over? Maybe, if it's that good, but .68 cal isn't going anywhere as long as there are people who want to use it.

[Jacko]

Im pretty sure that over time IF .68 was phased out that there would be someone working on some sort of inserts for older markers.

[John C]

Im pretty sure that over time IF .68 was phased out that there would be someone working on some sort of inserts for older markers.

For a lot of markers thats simply not possible. Even if it was a viable product.

[spangley_special]

For a lot of markers thats simply not possible. Even if it was a viable product.

would need more substantial changes than a breech spacer but I can think of no reason why conversion kits are not possible (at least on the platforms that i am familiar with)

...dont see it being cheap tho, as all would need new bolts/boltkits and specific barrel backs

[BORIS]

Good test of seeing what the better cal is would be to pitch 2 top teams one team using 68 other using 50 if the 50 is so much better then the 50 cal team would have a massive advantage

[stongle]

I think the test would not to be a bit less subjective and more scientific than that. I mean, you could just give the .50 cal to Ironmen and the .68 to Portsmouth Uni or someone.

.50 cal will eventually dominate. It's got a cooler name, well until they come up with a paint called "20 mike mike".

[burnzy1989]

Wouldnt you have less accuracy with a .50 paintball in slightly windy conditions and it would hurt alot more i would of thought it bei8ng smaller ?

[ses_paintball]

I think that .50 cal will be the choice for new sites; if the set up i available. Why wouldn't they pick it? They will get superior efficiecy, paint is supposedly marginaly cheaper. Along with the whole range and accuracy deal. About hurting people at world cup we invited to use the .50 markers and theyve said they hurt less than a .68 and break just as easy.

Big companies are obviously looking into .50 cal

Smart Parts Impulse has a.50 version
Gi milslim have a range of markers
Spyder have a new .50 range
Ego release a conversion kit
Dye supposedly have a rotor coversion kit in the pipe line

I feel big companies are doing there best to do whats good for paintball which potentialy could be .50 cal but also covering their arses by bringing out conversion kits rather than new markers straight away.

Personaly im all for the idea of .50 cal and the benifits seem to be very appetising to me.

[Robbo]

Wouldnt you have less accuracy with a .50 paintball in slightly windy conditions and it would hurt alot more i would of thought it bei8ng smaller ?

No and No ..... pleas read my post where I explain what's what with .50 cal

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1283857&postcount=26

This explains most of it I think but if you need to know anything else, just re-post.

[Vegard]

One minor problem I see is that it is allready hard enough to justify spending $800+ on a marker. And now there might be a shift towards a smaller caliber.

In a worst case scenario, companies will take a hit in their sales because they've sent a portion of their consumers to sit on the fence and wait out to see which caliber will reign supreme. The caliber that wins out will make all other markers close to worthless in the used market as demand dwindles down. (the latter is obviously not something most companies care about)

I'll never buy anything .50 unless it's a Desert Eagle.

I'm perfectly happy with my sport as it is.

[Dusty]

Pump to semi, same old arguments.
Semi to electro, same old arguments.
Electro semi to ramp, same old arguments.

Paintballers don't like change, simple. No wonder the sport is in the state it is in.

Primadonna pro's and lack of foreward thinking on the part of the player.

[Robbo]

Primadonna pro's and lack of foreward thinking on the part of the player.

Pro player??????
I defy anyone to name a professional UK paintballer ..... there ain't one, not even close.

The mantle of 'professional' is self-administered to give some degree of detachment from the masses ... after all, wouldn't wanna be associated with them semi-pro or guys who just like to compete now would we???

I mean, professional, it certainly sounds fantastic, it also sounds grandiose and important ......but the truth of the matter?
Lololololololololol ...........................

When I played, we had 20 or so called pro teams, the difference being, we knew in our hearts it was a glaring misnomer with the reality so detached from the designation, it was laughable ....

The irony is, it's all so serious now which makes the delusion even more absurd.

Maybe the reduction in pro teams we have over here is nature's way of thinning out the herd, or in this case, thinning out the deluded.

[Dusty]

I normally put the word "pro" like so, on this occasion I did forget, however the primadonna precursor should make my opinion of them fairly clear.

Way I see it, when these guys hit 35 years of age, they'll realise they were never more than heavily subsidised hobbyists.

Sad thing is, these are the very same people who will probably determine the use of .50 cal, also known as the most significant step in paintball technology for years, in tournament paintball. If these "pros" take it up, everyone will be asking in 2 years time why it was never done before, if they don't the same people will be gloating about how they knew all along it would be a disaster.

Judging these players by their behaviour on the field would you really want them determining the future of our sport? Or the guys who play for fun and because they enjoy it on the scenario scene, or division 4 of their local tourney series. Let the common man make his own choice I say.....

[Robbo]

Nexus are without doubt, our dominant team, and rightly so, they have some of our best players with the likes of Tommy P, Jason Wheeler, Dunny and Leigh; And I think within that group of 4, they are not the archetypal pro player in that they have lost sight of who they actually are, and are not extremely grateful for any support they might get.

I don't know Jason well but I know the other 3 extremely well and those guys were always humble and prepared to help other players and as such, I would certainly hold these guys up for our younger players to aspire to ... I have the utmost respect for what they could do on the field, and as importantly, off.
The irony is, they are all, model pro players.

And from what little I know of Jason Wheeler, I would with no hesitation, put him in with this other three ... he is of the same ilk of person / player.

When I look across the UK scene at the moment, I can only see one deserving pro team, and that is Nexus.
Dave Younbgblood has invested much into this team and it's a shrewd and also, justified investment because Nexus are without doubt, one of the best teams in Europe, and Europe is a huge market now in relation to the Stateside market.

Years ago, European sales were but a fraction of the US's, but now ... things have drastically changed, tilting the balance of dollar-power significantly toward us Euros.

I'd love to see some of the Nexus players go real pro ... because?
well, I think true talent and loyalty deserve reward .. and those guys already mentioned are thoroughly deserving, that's for sure.

Clint Moore once told me on the phone, he was captain of the best team the UK has ever had which kinda made me wince a little because I had always believed that it wasn't what anybody on the team thought that defined a team, it was the teams they played against that defined them.

In other words, the competitive environment, each and every team finds themselves in, and of course, the subsequent results in that environment, are the defining qualities one looks for when assessing relative values.
A little research may well be appropriate sometimes.

I wish we did have real pro players over here, the US has them, but even then, only a handful, and I mean a handful.

The recent financial downturn in the paintball economy and the overall economy, has massively cut the support the pro teams were getting and therefore cut down the possibilities for players to achieve pro status.

But what really bashed the cr@p out of it all was the failure to get paintball on TV, this had everybody regretting the somewhat untimely investments they made into pro teams and players.
I say 'untimely' because most of the industry had gambled on the fact TV was inevitable and therefore felt honour-bound to jump on the TV bandwagon ... it would have been 'rude not to' was their philosophy it seems.

Ridiculous amounts of dosh were being bandied around at one stage.
I can remember being offered well over $100 grand just to leave Dye at the end of our first season (2003) - it was an insane amount of money and an insane time to be around pro paintball I can tell ya, truly insane.

I subsequently declined the offer by the way but can remember a certain player in my team at the time advising me to 'take the offer' and leave Dye ... it tunned out, the notion of loyalty was only ever adhered to in this guy's family when it revolved around the acquisition of money .... disloyalty and dishonesty, seemingly inextricably linked around the Kingston friary.

Sh!t, I have wandered slightly ... Dusty, apologies mate, I get carried away sometimes ... please don't delete it mate:)

[Dusty]

Sh!t, I have wandered slightly ... Dusty, apologies mate, I get carried away sometimes ... please don't delete it mate:)

I keep telling you, it's your house :cool:

Plus we all know everytime one of your posts gets deleted a puppy dies, and I like puppies too much ;)

[Marcus Geezer]

I remember reading a study on the accuracy of paintballs and what increase or decreases accuracy. They took a certain brand (or brands) of paint and shot it through several different markers (which had been clamped in place) using different barrel systems to try and find out what factors are important to maintain good accuracy. Exactly as Robbo has stated here and in many other areas of the forum it includes a good combination of consistent paint, good barrel to paint match, consistent markers and so forth. It was a while back when I read this so please excuse me if I havent got all the facts 100%.

What would perhaps clear up some of the mystery of 0.50 over 0.68 being would be if someone could produce a similair test and see how 0.68 compares to 0.50 for accuracy?

Good quality consistent markers clamped in place one 0.68 the other 0.50, good barrel to paint match, paint that despite the size difference has been manufactured and stored in similair ways and then fired down a range to see how the resultant spread compares.

I think if the 0.50 at least compares well to the 0.68 and it is promised 0.50 paint would be cheaper then we may see 0.50 cal become the prominent paint?

[Bolter]

I remember reading a study on the accuracy of paintballs and what increase or decreases accuracy. They took a certain brand (or brands) of paint and shot it through several different markers (which had been clamped in place) using different barrel systems to try and find out what factors are important to maintain good accuracy. Exactly as Robbo has stated here and in many other areas of the forum it includes a good combination of consistent paint, good barrel to paint match, consistent markers and so forth. It was a while back when I read this so please excuse me if I havent got all the facts 100%.

What would perhaps clear up some of the mystery of 0.50 over 0.68 being would be if someone could produce a similair test and see how 0.68 compares to 0.50 for accuracy?

Good quality consistent markers clamped in place one 0.68 the other 0.50, good barrel to paint match, paint that despite the size difference has been manufactured and stored in similair ways and then fired down a range to see how the resultant spread compares.

I think if the 0.50 at least compares well to the 0.68 and it is promised 0.50 paint would be cheaper then we may see 0.50 cal become the prominent paint?

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2218018

[Marcus Geezer]

Thats the one. Thanks Bolter!

[Vegard]

It might be like pissing against the wind, but here's a "petition" against .50.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3227066

[Robbo]

It might be like pissing against the wind, but here's a "petition" against .50.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3227066

...or alternatively, go to www.kingcanute.com to register your displeasure :)

[Bolter]

It might be like pissing against the wind, but here's a "petition" against .50.
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3227066

Like a petition is going to do anything lol!

[outkastmike]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly why people are so against the change to .50cal.
What's not to like if it does have the range and accuracy of .68cal and cheaper as the claims being made.

Most people on P8ntballer seem to be open minded and prepared to give it a chance to succeed from what i have read so far,unlike PBN which seems to have it's fair share of "this is going to destroy paintball" brigade :rolleyes:.

But as Corporal Jones would say.................

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/outkastmike/avaters/Mjones.jpg

[Gee Tee]

surly if everything goes to 50 cal then wouldnt all the old school markers(witch are mighty fun to use) become un-useable


Only if someone chops off your arms and they stop making .68 cal paint.

It'll take more than that to stop me ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL0dnrFbhtE&feature=related

[gambo47]

If many years ago .50 cal was the standard and someone now came out with a .68 cal paintball. What would people be saying? Probably the same except no current gun would have been able to fire it! Just because its new or different doesn't make it bad. Lets just see where it goes. If players buy it in volumes then it will sell along side or in place of .68 in the future. Compare the market lol
Simple:)

[burnzy1989]

I personally think they should keep both paintball`s 68. and 50. cal so that you have a choice to pic from if the 50. cal is slightly cheaper it would encourage more people to play due to it being cheaper. they wont get rid of 68.cal due to the shear quantity of paintball markers that are 68.cal no one would change over. So just see it as a second choice of paint to use.

[onasilverbike]

Having witnessed the .50 GI Millsim show at Cup I have one or two hesitations on the subject.

The size and weight of the markers is reduced from the current .68s we are used to, will this lead to an unstable firing platform, the mass and bulk of the set-up being too small to hold firmly enough for an accurate shot?

The amount of associated equipment that individual players will need to change to fall in line with .50. This not only includes the equipment associated with a .50 marker but some things many might not have thought of, goggles for instance.

We took a bag of fresh .50 calibre paintballs and they pushed straight through the vents in the faceplate of my JT Proflexes, admittedly these have the older and a little more flexible IZE faceplate (especially when they have been out in the hot sun all day) but then did the same with a pair of Flex 8s that had been in the shade all day, and replicated the effect with Grillz too, it was not only an issue with faceplates but ear protection too.

I for one would feel uncomfortable stepping on to a field where .50 was being shot with what I thought was inadequate protection. As for the ASTM safety standards for paintball goggles, this only applies to the eye protection and does not cover face and ear protection.

[Padrao]

The ballistics tests are out and they only confirmed what physics already were hinting. Check the ballistic tests and see for yourself. .50 cal looses all around... And will be less reliable in the field. If they allow the use of both 0.50 will not win the market simply because folks will prefer to shoot accurately instead of shooting the double and fail and pay the same.

Also... new tournament rules already lead the game to a more exciting, tactical and less expensive game, with the reduction to 10 bps in the millenium for example. This .50 sounds... it really does like a way to get some extra $$$ in someones pockets!!!!

[Robbo]

The ballistics tests are out and they only confirmed what physics already were hinting. Check the ballistic tests and see for yourself. .50 cal looses all around... And will be less reliable in the field. If they allow the use of both 0.50 will not win the market simply because folks will prefer to shoot accurately instead of shooting the double and fail and pay the same.

Also... new tournament rules already lead the game to a more exciting, tactical and less expensive game, with the reduction to 10 bps in the millenium for example. This .50 sounds... it really does like a way to get some extra $$$ in someones pockets!!!!

padrao, you talk cr@p and I see you used a new user account to make your post ... I wonder why ..... :rolleyes:

Wanna come back on and post this under your real name???
Nah, thought not ...
Ingrate !!!!

Guys, if someone, even an imbecile such as this padrao, posts something that is essentially true then apart from the guy's gutless streak in signing under a new name, I won't have too much of a problem with it.
It's when they post fecal material like this, I get pis$ed off.

[k4p84]

Having witnessed the .50 GI Millsim show at Cup I have one or two hesitations on the subject.

The size and weight of the markers is reduced from the current .68s we are used to, will this lead to an unstable firing platform, the mass and bulk of the set-up being too small to hold firmly enough for an accurate shot?

The amount of associated equipment that individual players will need to change to fall in line with .50. This not only includes the equipment associated with a .50 marker but some things many might not have thought of, goggles for instance.

We took a bag of fresh .50 calibre paintballs and they pushed straight through the vents in the faceplate of my JT Proflexes, admittedly these have the older and a little more flexible IZE faceplate (especially when they have been out in the hot sun all day) but then did the same with a pair of Flex 8s that had been in the shade all day, and replicated the effect with Grillz too, it was not only an issue with faceplates but ear protection too.

I for one would feel uncomfortable stepping on to a field where .50 was being shot with what I thought was inadequate protection. As for the ASTM safety standards for paintball goggles, this only applies to the eye protection and does not cover face and ear protection.

Pete, you know what that hadn't even passed my mind that they might have to make .50cal goggle sytems !

As per the proposed accuracy issues.
I have played the odd game of airsoft here and there and the biggest issue I have with it, other than not marking the darn player, is that the pellets are too light and after a certain distance they wobble and go wherever the hell they please. This is only due to the weight of the pellet.
You can get heavier ones that do work better.

Is it not true to a certain extent that a round will perform better if it is heavier. Simply due to it's momentum been greater than the other forces, wind, rain... being exerted on it. Yes other factors such as the shape or the round (pun intended) and whether it is gyroscopically stable etc so we are just discussing a spherical object that can deform.

Would this not be the case here. Would each calibre have a sweet spot for best performance? I know you have issues such as the round may, not in our case, exceed 12 foot pounds but in my thinking a heavier round would outperform a lighter one.
A light round at a high velocity, to achieve 12 foot pounds, would be very unstable.

So since from the limited stuff I have heard about .50 cal they are a small and heavy round so I can see them performing well.

Now I know paintballers love to talk sh*t about things we have not seen but I am totally open minded about this.
Piper is coming down to show to show the site manager it so he can decide whether to buy .50 cal kit in the new year. If I'm free I plan to pop down to see it too.

Ed

[Padrao]

padrao, you talk cr@p and I see you used a new user account to make your post ... I wonder why ..... :rolleyes:

Wanna come back on and post this under your real name???
Nah, thought not ...
Ingrate !!!!

Guys, if someone, even an imbecile such as this padrao, posts something that is essentially true then apart from the guy's gutless streak in signing under a new name, I won't have too much of a problem with it.
It's when they post fecal material like this, I get pis$ed off.

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=128251 - Anything to say regarding it?

Ey Robbo it is a new account simply because I was not registered in this forum at all, so I created the acount not long ago. Anyone with the right access can verify my IP to be legit and only being used in one account ;)

My real name? sure I'm Nuno Padrão and Im from Portugal. It is a pleasure to speak with you mate, and with everyone in this forum.

I have been following this debate without taking sides untill now but being someone who knows something about math I found some theories weird to say the least. Now Robbo tell me you certainly saw the balistic tests posted in PBNation and recently posted here aswell. Is there something wrong with them? Obviously in the field there are several other factors coming in, but theoreticaly that is it.

I have also seen some folks who actually tried the paint giving feedback, and even though it is not a consensus most of them found hard to see where the paint was hitting, had a hard time to see the paint break and confirm that even though shooting a target showed a simillar mark (size wise) in the jerseys it doesnt mark so well. The fact that .50 paint was not so acurate at long range and had troubles to keep the pace with .68 was also mentioned.

These to me sound like some downsides on the comp side of things where people will go for the more deficient paint (I guess), since it makes no sense to be able to carry more paint, but then you need to shoot more paint to hit the target, which in the end makes you spend the same...

Robbo don't get me wrong. I am still waiting to be able to test it first hand AND, mate, if the claims are confirmed IM ALL for .50 cal, I don't like spending loads of $$$$$ in paint to get a practice day, and would surely love to spend half as I do right now.

And if it is true in the long time the paint difference will pay for the costs of a new marker, I also think it is a bit unfair to look at my newly acquired Luxe and think I'll have to ditch it in one year. Because it is inevitable that .68 gets more expensive as the .50 takes the market.

So here are my thoughts, and I hope paintball goes on and finds a way to survive. But being the owner of a field, I can also tell you replacing 40 markers and extra equipment needed like masks, is impossible to me right now and that will get my place shut down, same if the paint starts costing more in a few months.

As to saying someone is aiming to get some money in their pockets, lets not ilude ourselves, passion, love for the sports bla bla bla in the end people needs a car, food in their table and $$, and MilSim suddenly comes out being a new and revolutionary company, then Im told Rich sold his stakes at Procaps, signed a contract where he could not compete with them making a new brand of paint, and the .50 is born. Ey is it true? I do not know... but it does sound weird.

Also no need to offend anyone or get personal ;) everyone is entitled to their own opinion, you defend .50 with your heart you must have your motivations, be it the love for the sport and truly believing this will save it, or whatever, but you can also be wrong, and others can also express their opinions. Cheers.


Forgive me any spelling or grammar mistakes English is not my native language obviously.

[Robbo]

And so, let me get this right, you wait all this time (we been going now for nigh on 8 years or whatever it is) for this thread and then you register as a member?


And your first ever post is to take a negative position toward this new idea?

Now, I got no problem with people posting negative points, none at all.
I do however have a problem with people who are agenda-ridden and use anonymity to shield their true identity and go on to try and undermine something because of an agenda.
Let's hope you are not one of those.

Still, I have read your post a few times and you say things that are just not true or at least, take up a negative position for the sake of it and not because there is any rational conclusion to be made.

If I am wrong about you, then I duly apologise and look forward to further posts from yourself ..... I have been wrong before about people coming on as first time posters (not many though) and so let's hope this is one such occasion.

[DJForbes]

wouldnt it be better if back players stayed with 68 for range and front players use the 50 so they aint stuck down with pods ?

hopefully they can play side by side if not i recon ill stick with 68 as amnot a tourney player and play alot of diffrent types of feilds and games. altho i do want to try the 50 out just to see if its as bad or good as i hear.

[Padrao]

And so, let me get this right, you wait all this time (we been going now for nigh on 8 years or whatever it is) for this thread and then you register as a member?


And your first ever post is to take a negative position toward this new idea?

Now, I got no problem with people posting negative points, none at all.
I do however have a problem with people who are agenda-ridden and use anonymity to shield their true identity and go on to try and undermine something because of an agenda.
Let's hope you are not one of those.

Still, I have read your post a few times and you say things that are just not true or at least, take up a negative position for the sake of it and not because there is any rational conclusion to be made.

If I am wrong about you, then I duly apologise and look forward to further posts from yourself ..... I have been wrong before about people coming on as first time posters (not many though) and so let's hope this is one such occasion.

No I was not waiting for 8 years... I simply did not registered before, and wasn't even aware of the forum, found it recently, some people do not spend great lengths of time in the Internet, or should i say I didn't used to, now with a new job things changed unfortunately...

But for someone who doesn't have a problem with negative points your reaction was... not the best.

I have no agenda and i hope to participate more in the forum, even though I think what our sport needs is more people acting out there, instead of making thousands of posts that will lead us and the sport nowhere.

Reball for instance, is a great way to push our sport to another level in terms of training, and fun, but yes... that will not give the industry a direct income... Im not sure how is the situation in the UK, but here... we totally lack reball centers, and theres people looking for such kind of places, just not the funds and the iniative from those able to got such a project going.

Its a sad truth.

[Gee Tee]

I'm reserving judgement until .50 get's more 'real world' testing. From what I've seen and read so far it appears the jury is out. A lot of tests leave it falling short of .68 caliber performance in many ways. If it proves to be a poorly designed product nobody will buy it regardless of any cost savings.

Until I see unbiased back to back tests, demonstrating that .50 consistently beats the performance of current tecnology, I'll stick to shooting .68

[Biscuit]

we all have our opinons but the only guy,s that will make a differance are the sites if these guys,don,t like it ,it won,t happen
if they do,this will be the next big thing.
in the meantime shops are up in the air as people are not buying products,as they are not sure about the future of pb