50 cal - does the UK customer benefit?

[Dark Warrior]

We hear all the hype, but the US market is not the same as the UK market, do you think that the UK customer will benefit in a change to 50 cal?

[Devrij]

Nope. Not if the initial tests are anything to go by. Doesn't matter how cheap it is if it doesn't break.

[Dusty]

These "tests" are hardly conclusive. You've probably seen people dropping paint in their kitchens and calling it a test.

Everyone knows there are lots of variables in how a paintball flies and breaks. All I'm concerned about is that it breaks when I SHOOT someone with it, i don't care if it's going to break off your kitchen floor.

The proof is in the pudding gents, SHOOT it first, then make your minds up.

[Dusty]

We hear all the hype, but the US market is not the same as the UK market, do you think that the UK customer will benefit in a change to 50 cal?


Yes the customer who chooses to shoot .50 will benefit from lower pricing on their paint, long term saving, alternatively spend the same money and get more bang for your buck.


I don't see why people are all up in arms about .50 cal, no one is being forced to use it :)

[Random Invert]

Yes the customer who chooses to shoot .50 will benefit from lower pricing on their paint, long term saving, alternatively spend the same money and get more bang for your buck.


I don't see why people are all up in arms about .50 cal, no one is being forced to use it :)

As long as the balls work well on the field, the only short term downside is upgrading your kit but as well all know this change isn't going to happen over night and I can see Virtue etc bringing out loads of short term upgrades for current markers.

[Dark Warrior]

Yes the customer who chooses to shoot .50 will benefit from lower pricing on their paint, long term saving, alternatively spend the same money and get more bang for your buck.


I don't see why people are all up in arms about .50 cal, no one is being forced to use it :)

Interesting theory there Dusty, but are you thinking that the majority of customers are own gunners?

If you look at how most UK sites make their money, it is from paint sales
If they sell paint at 6p per ball will they drop it to 5p a ball, doubt it as that equates to a loss if income of £20 and when you factor in site cost of retooling, where is the benefit for the likes of Delta Force to switch all their sites to .50cal.

Now looking at own gunners they will probably save about £5 per box, but to cover the cost of re-equipping yourself to shoot .50cal, you would need to be using 90 boxes in the year and if you work it out not many average players actually use that amount whether in tournament or woodland.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to money and all we are hearing about are the respective ballistic qualities of .50 and .68cal. We know they can make the balls fly and burst very similar with a bit of tweaking, although it "may" need a slight bps increase.

The question is, are there any real benefits to UK Sites Owners and UK Customer base or are we just going to have to move with the times because its good for the US and possibly others?


And if anyone is interested I have no affiliation either way.

[Dskize]

Anyone who thinks site owners will drop there paint prices is being niave to the extreme.

Good site owners who regularly replace there kit will swap over as soon the time comes ,the other 90% will use the same ****ty markers untill people stop making .68.

[Big Mac]

Just a quick question cos i have been out of the loop a while here.

Does .50 cal require a change in hoppers? Would the smaller sizes cause jams or other similar problems?

[Dark Warrior]

Just a quick question cos i have been out of the loop a while here.

Does .50 cal require a change in hoppers? Would the smaller sizes cause jams or other similar problems?

Paddle and feedneck alterations that's all, though some could be retro fitted

I bet customer sites would request smaller pots, hoppers and harnesses too

[Big Mac]

Paddle and feedneck alterations that's all, though some could be retro fitted

I bet customer sites would request smaller pots, hoppers and harnesses too

Seems like a lot of hassle for little benefit. I will wait to see it in action before real judgement.

However from reading everything it appears that perhaps it could benefit/alter tournament play and style of game but for customer sites be less beneficial, at least in the short term.

[Dark Warrior]

Seems like a lot of hassle for little benefit. I will wait to see it in action before real judgement.

However from reading everything it appears that perhaps it could benefit/alter tournament play and style of game but for customer sites be less beneficial, at least in the short term.

And what benefits do you think UK tournament play gains from .50cal?

[Big Mac]

And what benefits do you think UK tournament play gains from .50cal?

Im not really sure to be honest, is it not meant to be cheaper to manufacture, therefore making it slightly cheaper overall costs at a tournament meaning that more uk teams will be playing more events so ensuring a high turnout? Perhaps this is over exaggerated, i dont know if the cost differences are that significant?

Im not really sure, i was just bored and this is the first time i have been on here in a few months and gave it a brief read. Maybe i should read further into it...

[Big Mac]

admittedly though the cost of gear mods/changing could have the opposite effect especially on the younger players. Again im not up to date on this so have no idea on any estimated costs of this.

[Dark Warrior]

admittedly though the cost of gear mods/changing could have the opposite effect especially on the younger players. Again im not up to date on this so have no idea on any estimated costs of this.

Post #6 will give you a basic insight :rolleyes: and you know the basic costs of a new equipment

[Big Mac]

well now i feel silly, pretty standard really! I read that post as well but it didnt click as i was typing.

I wasn't expecting such a spanish inquisition from you eric. Mind you i walked right into it, dropping myself back in at the deep end.

Still if you ignore the cost of mods and whatnot, new markers/hoppers will be made to the 50 cal specs, people who buy new markers virtually every year wont be affected too much as they buy a new marker so the cost recovery is less of an issue, but still an issue for those who cant afford to just go out and buy new.

For now, i back out!

[Dark Warrior]

well now i feel silly, pretty standard really! I read that post as well but it didnt click as i was typing.

I wasn't expecting such a spanish inquisition from you eric. Mind you i walked right into it, dropping myself back in at the deep end.

Still if you ignore the cost of mods and whatnot, new markers/hoppers will be made to the 50 cal specs, people who buy new markers virtually every year wont be affected too much as they buy a new marker so the cost recovery is less of an issue, but still an issue for those who cant afford to just go out and buy new.

For now, i back out!

You forgot that most of those who buy new, also sell their old to offset costs, expect those greedy GunWhores ;):D of course.

Oh! You can't sell the old because no one will want them :eek:

[lee123]

i seriosly doubt site owners will change all the rentals guns to .50 cal

[Dusty]

Interesting theory there Dusty, but are you thinking that the majority of customers are own gunners?

If you look at how most UK sites make their money, it is from paint sales
If they sell paint at 6p per ball will they drop it to 5p a ball, doubt it as that equates to a loss if income of £20 and when you factor in site cost of retooling, where is the benefit for the likes of Delta Force to switch all their sites to .50cal.

Now looking at own gunners they will probably save about £5 per box, but to cover the cost of re-equipping yourself to shoot .50cal, you would need to be using 90 boxes in the year and if you work it out not many average players actually use that amount whether in tournament or woodland.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to money and all we are hearing about are the respective ballistic qualities of .50 and .68cal. We know they can make the balls fly and burst very similar with a bit of tweaking, although it "may" need a slight bps increase.

The question is, are there any real benefits to UK Sites Owners and UK Customer base or are we just going to have to move with the times because its good for the US and possibly others?


And if anyone is interested I have no affiliation either way.

Joe the punter doesn't care, a hundred shots is a hundred shots no matter what size they are, as long as the price is reasonable and the customer doesn't walk away feeling robbed then its all good.

End of the day you go to a restaurant and order a steak it's £15. You aren't worried about the fact that steak only cost a quid or two, you walk away feeling you've had value for money.

The benefit to the customer is less pain and thats always going to encourage repeat business, people who don't like the sting won't come back as often. Repeat business means more people likely to be own gunners, more of them translates to tourney ball, tourney ball also grows.

Also keep in mind most sites will spend as little as possible on paint, often meaning really cheap, hard, nasty paint when as little as £1 extra a box can make a huge leap in quality.

The downside is that £1 per box translates to £130 a skid, or £260 for 2 skids, or £390 for 3 skids. Take it over a year and if the bigger sites are going through even 2 skids a month thats 24 a year which is over 3 grand.

I know there's one site in Ireland pumps through hundreds of people every weekend, and i mean hundreds as in 4-500. If each customer only shot 500 balls thats still 250 boxes a week, or 2 skids, which is over 100 skids a year.

Hands up if you are spending hundreds changing from your 09 gat to the latest 2010? Ego 9 - Ego 10 honestly are there hundreds of pounds worth of performance benefits? DM9-DM10? Yet they're still selling....

Once people see for themselves if there are REAL benefits to .50cal changing over won't be as bad as all that. The manufacturers WILL bring out drop in kits, Eclipse have started the rest will follow for fear of losing their customers for the sake of a drop in. If they don't people like Custom Products if they are switched on will make a killing manufacturing drop in kits for all guns.

[Devrij]

These "tests" are hardly conclusive. You've probably seen people dropping paint in their kitchens and calling it a test.

Everyone knows there are lots of variables in how a paintball flies and breaks. All I'm concerned about is that it breaks when I SHOOT someone with it, i don't care if it's going to break off your kitchen floor.

The proof is in the pudding gents, SHOOT it first, then make your minds up.

A ball hitting a hard surface from 8 feet should break. If I drop .68 cal from that height it'd break. So you're saying that a ball traveling the same velocity that doesn't break might translate into a ball travelling the same velocity (or not, according to ballistics calculations) that does break on field?

[Dusty]

A ball hitting a hard surface from 8 feet should break. If I drop .68 cal from that height it'd break. So you're saying that a ball traveling the same velocity that doesn't break might translate into a ball travelling the same velocity (or not, according to ballistics calculations) that does break on field?


How was the paint stored then smart ass? What temperature was it when the test was performed? What grade of paint was it? Site or tourney? What was the humidity factor?

I've seen so called top grade tourney paint fail to break off concrete after being THROWN 20 ft in the air so no the tests are NOT conclusive. I've seen field paint break from knee height falling onto mud.

I'll be waiting to see for myself, then I'll make an honest judgement call.

[Padrao]

These "tests" are hardly conclusive. You've probably seen people dropping paint in their kitchens and calling it a test.

Everyone knows there are lots of variables in how a paintball flies and breaks. All I'm concerned about is that it breaks when I SHOOT someone with it, i don't care if it's going to break off your kitchen floor.

The proof is in the pudding gents, SHOOT it first, then make your minds up.

These drop tests are done this way because when you let a ball fall without any other forces acting on it other then gravity, you are able to calculate the energy necessary to break it, if you know from which height it fell.

This is not some irrelevant or inconclusive test, in fact, like you can see in the ballistic tests thread, this test is actually very reliable, the calculations made allowed us to know where the .50 would break, and the tests on the field confirmed what was expected... 90feet is the limit, at 100 feet the balls bounced and bounced like crazy, oh and the sting... hurts more then .68 cal. Thats using 300 fps.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/50ballistics/images/fpe_%28energy%29_50_break_bounce_combined.png

[Dusty]

These drop tests are done this way because when you let a ball fall without any other forces acting on it other then gravity, you are able to calculate the energy necessary to break it, if you know from which height it fell.

This is not some irrelevant or inconclusive test, in fact, like you can see in the ballistic tests thread, this test is actually very reliable, the calculations made allowed us to know where the .50 would break, and the tests on the field confirmed what was expected... 90feet is the limit, at 100 feet the balls bounced and bounced like crazy, oh and the sting... hurts more then .68 cal. Thats using 300 fps.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/50ballistics/images/fpe_%28energy%29_50_break_bounce_combined.png


All very well and good, where was this test performed and when, comparing .68 which grade/brand to .50 grade brand? No point compairing Draxxus gold to the .50 cal equivalent of draxxus field.

Take a top level tourney grade from each calibre and compare them. Store them in identical conditions, record your results then come back to me.

What you are showing me is a graph which states .68 and .50.

I can show you any amount of graphs where a 1 litre engine is outperformed by a 750 cc engine. the 1litre will be in a Fiat panda, the 750cc will be in a GSXR750.......

Compare like for like as far as possible chaps....

[Robbo]

I love it when people quote 'experimental' data as if it's the 'be all and end all' of an argument.
Now for the most part, this is fine but what irks me is when people do it who are unqualified to interpret experimental data let alone quote it.

But, if you are gonna quote 'experimental' data then at least make sure the tests were rigorous, and conform to the varying rules of whatever scientific branch these tests are related to.

I find there is a direct relationship between people who have agendas and the propensity for these people to quote amateur and sometimes misleading 'experimental' data to further their cause.

Let's see what unfolds and what pretenders are unmasked.

[Piper]

If a site switeches to 50 cal today they will get the money back that they laid out for the new equipment in 8-10 months, this is obviously based on paint consumption. So for the average site to change to 50 cal when they are going to change their equipment anyway makes perfect sense.

As for the paint not breaking from 8 foot at 50 cal but it will if it is 68 cal.......... There are so many factors when you test paint that to say one will break and the other wont is daft, couple of questions was the paint the same grade? What surface was it dropped on? When the 68 broke how did it break on the the ball surface, did it break on the seam or did it break on the surface of the ball?

As for tournament players........... No one is forcing anyone to switch from 68 to 50 cal.......... Yes you all seem like the industry is.

[Sid Sidgwick]

Joe the punter doesn't care, a hundred shots is a hundred shots no matter what size they are, as long as the price is reasonable and the customer doesn't walk away feeling robbed then its all good.

End of the day you go to a restaurant and order a steak it's £15. You aren't worried about the fact that steak only cost a quid or two, you walk away feeling you've had value for money.

The benefit to the customer is less pain and thats always going to encourage repeat business, people who don't like the sting won't come back as often. Repeat business means more people likely to be own gunners, more of them translates to tourney ball, tourney ball also grows.
Also keep in mind most sites will spend as little as possible on paint, often meaning really cheap, hard, nasty paint when as little as £1 extra a box can make a huge leap in quality.

The downside is that £1 per box translates to £130 a skid, or £260 for 2 skids, or £390 for 3 skids. Take it over a year and if the bigger sites are going through even 2 skids a month thats 24 a year which is over 3 grand.

I know there's one site in Ireland pumps through hundreds of people every weekend, and i mean hundreds as in 4-500. If each customer only shot 500 balls thats still 250 boxes a week, or 2 skids, which is over 100 skids a year.

Hands up if you are spending hundreds changing from your 09 gat to the latest 2010? Ego 9 - Ego 10 honestly are there hundreds of pounds worth of performance benefits? DM9-DM10? Yet they're still selling....

Once people see for themselves if there are REAL benefits to .50cal changing over won't be as bad as all that. The manufacturers WILL bring out drop in kits, Eclipse have started the rest will follow for fear of losing their customers for the sake of a drop in. If they don't people like Custom Products if they are switched on will make a killing manufacturing drop in kits for all guns.

Dusty for me this is the biggy. We tournament players are looking at it from our perspective in that will it be good for us, will we save money or end up shelling out lots for new kit only to have old redundent kit that we cant sell. But that, to me anyway, isnt the purpose of .50 cal, the purpose is to get more people turning up at sites to play as it doesnt hurt as much (as quoted by many people.) This will have a knock on effect of more people then getting into tourney ball thus rejuevenating the tourney scene.

Wheteher or not the paint is a success relies on sites, are they willing or able to get new equipment, what will the financial outlay be for them and how quickly will the see profits from it. If it is a success here then it may roll into tourney ball as well and we'll all be shooting it.

As a tourney player I dont want to be buying new kit (or drop in kits) as ill have a lot of expensive doorstops if .50 cal flies. I dont think the saving on paint will reach the end user-me enough so that I see a saving.

As a paintballer I see the advantage of getting more repeat custom and more people through the door as a huge thing for paintball as a whole which can only benefit me in giving me more people to shoot at each month.

For me im not quite sat on the fence more moving round it, checking out how it looks from both sides.

[Richie T]

whoops...

[Richie T]

If a site switeches to 50 cal today they will get the money back that they laid out for the new equipment in 8-10 months, this is obviously based on paint consumption. So for the average site to change to 50 cal when they are going to change their equipment anyway makes perfect sense.

Even if they are locked into 1 supplier? what happens if bad batches are made? what do they do then? bearing in mind all this paint will be comming from outside the country.

Also, whats to stop a new site from opening with 50 cal gear and slashing their prices? surely if that happens we are all doomed.

[Piper]

Even if they are locked into 1 supplier? what happens if bad batches are made? what do they do then? bearing in mind all this paint will be comming from outside the country.

Also, whats to stop a new site from opening with 50 cal gear and slashing their prices? surely if that happens we are all doomed.

There are right now 3 factories making 50 cal so it will be available from all of them..... Even if they are locked into one supplier, let's say they do a deal of some sort, then I am sure that supplier would sort out the bad batch of paint, it happens now with .68 cal, not like every batch from every company is always 100% right. There is only one company that makes paint in the UK so all the rest comes from outside the UK right now in .68, so there is no real argument here.

There is nothing to stop any site dropping their prices now even if they use .68 and don't switch to .50 Cal. It is their business and they run them how they want to, no one can tell anyone what they should charge for a case of paint, same as you cannot tell someone what they should charge for a beer or a pizza.

[Reiner]

Even if they are locked into 1 supplier? what happens if bad batches are made?If .50 cal catches on there will be multiple suppliers. It's relatively inexpensive to convert .68 cal machines to .50 cal.

Having said that, .50 call will have to come close to .68 in performance, which virtually all of the independant testing done on new .50 cal has not been demonstrating.

At best, .50 cal will become an option for people to choose. But those places in the world where .68 is allowed will most likely stay .68 dominant, just due to theperformance differences. Which by the way, is the same thing that happened last time .50 caliber was available.

[Richie T]

There are right now 3 factories making 50 cal so it will be available from all of them..... Even if they are locked into one supplier, let's say they do a deal of some sort, then I am sure that supplier would sort out the bad batch of paint, it happens now with .68 cal, not like every batch from every company is always 100% right. There is only one company that makes paint in the UK so all the rest comes from outside the UK right now in .68, so there is no real argument here.

There is nothing to stop any site dropping their prices now even if they use .68 and don't switch to .50 Cal. It is their business and they run them how they want to, no one can tell anyone what they should charge for a case of paint, same as you cannot tell someone what they should charge for a beer or a pizza.

I understood 50cal site gun sellers were tying sites in? perhaps im wrong.

regards to pricing, they all pretty much pay the same, so if one site is only paying the alleged 30% cheaper price then thats a huge advantage to new / struggling sites. Then .68 sites will have to follow suit surely?

[Piper]

I understood 50cal site gun sellers were tying sites in? perhaps im wrong.

regards to pricing, they all pretty much pay the same, so if one site is only paying the alleged 30% cheaper price then thats a huge advantage to new / struggling sites. Then .68 sites will have to follow suit surely?

Tying customers in is done now in .68 cal, so what's the difference? If you are tied into a deal you are tied in. But even if someone is tied in if the paint is bad then it is bad so I am sure that company would fix the issue. If they did not tehn why would you want to do a deal with them and tie yourself in? Makes no sense to me.

But why would any business want to throw away an additional 30% profit? I don't know any business in any industry that would turn down an additional 30% profit.

[Richie T]

Again, hyperthetically for new sites,

If you could make 500% profit anyway, whats another 30%? to get a bigger customer base?

[Piper]

OK so new site opens and has a choice buy .50 at x price or buy .68 at 30% more, and he sells (for the sake of this thread) paint per 100 @ £6.00......... Now it is his first year and things are tight because he has had to buy brand new equipment........ He need to make money as soon as possible and pay some bills, the industry standard for selling paint is £6.00 per 100 and he has bookings..... why would he drop the price? He will just make more money and pay his bills and be out of debt quicker than the guy down the road who went the .68 route.

Forget .50 for a second, if a new site opens and he buys paint cheap (and it is out there) and he is a brand new site what is to stop him selling paint at under £6 per 100? I don't see that introducing .50 cal would make this argument any different.

Anyone can sell paint for whatever they want.

I get what you are saying I just see it working in practice.

[Reiner]

OK so new site opens and has a choice buy .50 at x price or buy .68 at 30% more, and he sells (for the sake of this thread) paint per 100 @ £6.00......... Now it is his first year and things are tight because he has had to buy brand new equipment........ He need to make money as soon as possible and pay some bills, the industry standard for selling paint is £6.00 per 100 and he has bookings..... why would he drop the price? He will just make more money and pay his bills and be out of debt quicker than the guy down the road who went the .68 route. Good point, but let's look at it from a customer's point of view. Let's say I organize groups on a regualr basis, so I try each of the fields. One is selling .50 cal at 6.00/100 and the other is selling .68 cal at 6.00/100. At the .50 cal. field I get a tiny little bag of small paintballs, slightly more than a third of the size of bag I get at the other field. I might feel like I'm not getting as much. But then again, it's still 100 shots, so I might get over it.

Then I start playing and I find out that the .50 caliber balls won't fly quite as far and when I do hit someone 90 feet or further out, the paintballs are bouncing almost every time. Not the case at the .68 cal. field I played at. I could also follow the balls in the air a little easier because they were bigger. I think next time I'm going to take my group back to the .68 cal. field since it's the same price anyway.

[Piper]

Then I start playing and I find out that the .50 caliber balls won't fly quite as far and when I do hit someone 90 feet or further out, the paintballs are bouncing almost every time. Not the case at the .68 cal. field I played at. I could also follow the balls in the air a little easier because they were bigger. I think next time I'm going to take my group back to the .68 cal. field since it's the same price anyway.

Fair point, however do you think that every case of .68 cal flies straight and does not bounce? Have you played a full day on .50 cal? Have you tested any .50 cal?

I saw a customer the other day that pretty much had the same arguments as you, and they are all valid points. He shot the guns and paint and then ordered straight after he had shot it. He felt that he could see it fine, it flew same disatnce, when you consider there are trees etc in the way, it marks just as well as .68 cal and he could see it flying through the air.

I guess at some point it is personal choice some will go for .50 and some will stay with .68.

[k4p84]

There are plenty of sites out there that will only take paint if it is zero - one out of ten on a bounce test.

So how are these sites caring if the player gets welted up as none of the paint breaks on the player?
They don't, they see the fact that there site equipment does not have paint smashed in it so they don't have to clean it.
Also more bounces means players will shoot more paint to try and eliminate another player so this generates paint sales as does using respawning in game.

Not every site cares about repeat custom, they rely on being near a large population centre and therefore a large customer base. In these cases customer satisfaction is not important as they know they will have say 100+ players a weekend regardless of how they treat them.

This is sadly true so don't go shouting 'Heretic' at me.

So with all this 'data' saying .50 cal will bounce regardless then by your own admission these sites would swap over !

Regarding improving the value of the .50 cal I would be be surprised to see paint fall below £5 for 100 simply because this is were sites make there money. Rental players don't batter an eyelid when they spend £100 on a case currently and I don't see the majority suddenly becoming educated as to the true value of the product when they are handed .50 cal upon a switch.

Alas with 90 odd percent of all the current paint being shipped over from the States we do not always get the best quality product. Paint is very susceptible to environmental factors.

We have all seen paint that is dimpled, far from round, soft to the touch straight out the bag. Some paint is so brittle that you dont want to fill your pots up to the brim in case when you close the lid it breaks, vice versa i'm sure we have all seen the TechPB video showing if my memory serves 'Monster Ball'. A bag that could be stood on by a player and none of it broke.

The consistency of the product will certainly aid in is uptake but please do not preach about how poor .50 cal is when you:
A- have not tested it first hand,
B- GI Milsim I believe said they still wanted to make the ball a little heavier so the final product may be slightly different,
C- the fact that the current .68 cal is not a perfect product by any means. They are still trying to improve it today.

I have yet to see .50 cal personally but I know Piper has a very good reputation for supporting a good quality product so I do not see him trying to push a sub standard one onto the market.

I think his attitude on here sums it up, 'say what you want but when you actually try it you might like it' .

Ed

[Richie T]

OK in answer to your question......... yes we have reduced the cost to the site owner and the stores, compared to 68 cal. Now as we only sell wholesale I can only hope that stores and fields will reduce the cost to the player.......... which I am 99.9% sure they will :D

So you think fields will lower their prices or not?

What your saying is based on the assumption fields have bookings full stop. If they dont theres a few things they need to look at, and price is one of them.

[Rider]

it'll certainly give fields the option to cut a little of paint price to undercut other nearby fields and maybe draw in more custom.

if the field is doing well or at capacity then there wouldn't really be any need for them to drop price - they can just take the extra profit, and rightly so.

[Piper]

So you think fields will lower their prices or not?

What your saying is based on the assumption fields have bookings full stop. If they dont theres a few things they need to look at, and price is one of them.

No I don't think fields will drop the prices.

[Mav2124]

If the .50 Bounces more would that not in theory mean that the customer would have to spend more on paint in order to get hits?
So even if they lowered the price they would still end up buying more?
Just a thought

[NitroBall]

From what i have read and followed from articals and online forums in the past ever since .50 cal was mentioned , i always assumed one of the main reasons for .50 cal was to bring out cheaper paint for the consumer, making paintball more affordable to play, in effect creating a bigger player based (ie more players come into the sport) and have the existing players afford to play more often.

I know there are many other reasons, but the above was highlighted on many occassions.

So as i see it now, .50 cal is to help field owner make more money, not to help build a larger customer based for paintball.

Or just tell me i just read everything wrong.

[Echowitch]

Why can't they do both ?

If the savings to be made from switching to .50 are 30% savings then you knock 20% off the price. Quite a saving for the person umming and aahing over whether to give this paintball stuff a try. The site owner still see's a 10% increase in their profits.

[Reiner]

Speaking from a field owners point of view (albeit not in the UK), it is not in the best interest for fields to lower the price of paint.

As we all know, fields make most of their money by catering to new and casual players. Unlike in the US, that market is still fairly stable in the UK, from what I can see. Why is that? The US fields have over the years dropped their paint prices to extremely low levels in hopes of attracting more players. Unfortunatley, this has changed the game of paintball to a high volume game, a game that new/casual players do not enjoy as much. UK fields have not followed suit and guess what, they are still getting decent turnouts. Lowering the price of paintball does little but get people to shoot more paintballs. History has shown us that the amount spent for an outing does not change much. So players shoot more for the same price. That's not too bad for seasoned paintballers, but not a good thing for new/casual players.